Newbie here, Looking for more MPH Help « Thread Started on Aug 18, 2011, 11:17am »
Hello to everyone. I have been a lurker on here for a few weeks now and thought I'd register to hopefully get some answers to a few questions I have and clear up some of my confusion. I know there are literally hundreds of posts on this topic and I have read through many of them and I think I have now confused myself and would love some clarification.
I have a 2011 Peace TPGS-805 50cc Scooter. I have only been riding about 1-2 weeks. I get about 33mph (sometimes 35) on flat straight-aways, and have hit 40ish down a decent grade hill. I would like to be able to run about 40-45mph on flat. Not looking for a speed demon just something to keep from holding up traffic.
I have read on here (and seen video on youtube) about removing a washer from the front variation pulley which seems easy enough, roughly how much mph will I gain?
I have also read on here about various other mods that should be done once variation washer is removed which is where my confusion starts.
1. Will I also have to re-jet the carb? If so, is that as simple as removing the stock and replacing with a new one? I've read #88 jet seems to be the most common, true or false?
2. Should I upgrade my air filter? If so, any suggestions?
3. Spark Plug; new one? I've read my owners manual and it mentions 2 plugs as ok, one of which I believe my be an upgrade to the stock (have read in this forum about it but can't remember the model #)
4. Also, I think I have located the spark plug on my Peace but it is impossible to really see it for an inspection. Any ideas? I probably need to remove some of the plastics to do this.
5. Rollers. I have read a little about this but much of it goes over my head. Anyone's thoughts and input on this subject would be great.
I guess overall I am just trying to figure out the easiest and least expensive way to get a few more mph out of my 50cc. I know these things aren't built for "speed" but I know there has to something I can do to get a little extra push. I am fairly mechanically inclined but don't want to get over my head and make things worse.
Thanks in advance to anyone that decides to help this newbie out!
Re: Newbie here, Looking for more MPH Help « Reply #1 on Aug 18, 2011, 11:34am »
if your scooter is new with few miles on it my suggustion to you is 2 things 1 get a new cdi pack 2 Ride your scooter if you dont have 1000 miles on it yet its not broke in most all these scooters will run 40 mph on flat ground once there broke in good
Re: Newbie here, Looking for more MPH Help « Reply #2 on Aug 18, 2011, 11:38am »
Actually that was another question I about the CDI. I know what one looks like but I am having trouble locating it on my Peace scooter, any suggestions? Also, what type/brand CDI would you recommend.
Also, I do not have a gauge on my scoot that shows RPM, will this be a problem with a new CDI?
Re: Newbie here, Looking for more MPH Help « Reply #3 on Aug 18, 2011, 2:18pm »
not sure were it will be on your scooter most are with the battary . you will have to find it before you can get one. you will have to no what kind you need there are 2 diff ones i like the orange and you will be fine running with out a tac
Re: Newbie here, Looking for more MPH Help « Reply #4 on Aug 18, 2011, 3:08pm »
So I buy based on color?! That seems a little odd. Do you have a brand name or something to suggest. I've read on here about AC vs. DC, REV limiter vs. no REV restriction, etc. A little more insight would be a huge help. Thanks.
Joined: Jul 2010 Gender: Male Posts: 5,894 Location: Mainely Scooters
Re: Newbie here, Looking for more MPH Help « Reply #5 on Aug 18, 2011, 5:03pm »
We're a Peace Sports dealer and we use the 805's exclusively for our rentals so I'm pretty much an expert on them.
The CDI is in the battery box with the battery. You should have touched it when you put the battery in.
There is NO restriction on the 2011 Peace Sports scooters.
If you look on the rear engine case on top of the rear brake over the rear axle there should be a casting number. 5B is 50cc and 6B is a 63cc.
To get to the spark plug you need to remove the seat bucket (and calf shield if you don't have a small socket). REPLACE THE SPARK PLUG. NOW. The stock Torch are beyond crap. I've had a 50% failure rate on them in the first 100 miles.
The stock air filter is fine. You don't need to mess with anything.
The stock carbs come from Peace Sports jetted really lean. Unfortunately, they do NOT have an A/F screw, and the needle does NOT have any adjustments. You WILL need to replace the jets or the carb if you want more power. If your scooter is hard to start at times you should go ahead and upgrade the idle jet to a #35 (the stock one is wayyy too small) and the main jet to #80 (I've found #76 jets in there and they tend to be too lean at WOT).
REPLACE THE OIL. AGAIN. AND THE GEAR OIL.
Even if yours is a 50 it will have quite a bit of power. With rejetting the carb I've gotten all the rentals over 40 on the flats, radar sign verified. These are pretty fast scooters out of the box. I've also found that the variators are pretty well tuned and don't need lighter rollers, though I haven't tested them out with lighter ones yet.
Basically, once everything is tuned, the only way to get more *real* power is to upgrade the cylinder to a 72cc.
Re: Newbie here, Looking for more MPH Help « Reply #6 on Aug 19, 2011, 9:16am »
Thanks Greg. I actually bought my Peace from a local dealer and I'm pretty sure a lot of the tuning you referred to have been done. I know they replaced the carb and changed all the oil. Not sure about the spark plug but my scoot starts great every time.
I looked at the rear engine casing and mine says "5B".
How can I find out what jets are in the carb? I know I'll have to take the carb off and look but what exactly I am I looking for? I've read a lot on here about #88 jet, what is your take on that.
Also, what is involved in tuning the variator, do you think that was done by the dealer?
What about a new CDI, will that help at all? When you say there's no restriction are you referring to the variation washer or the CDI or both?
Also, can you explain more about upgrading the cylinder to a 72cc? What all is involved in that? Like I said, I'm new to scoots and don't really know anything about them.
ericrockstar Great Big Guru Dawg member is offline
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Joined: Apr 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 996 Location: Dulles, Virginia
Newbie here, Looking for more MPH Help « Reply #7 on Aug 19, 2011, 9:46am via the ProBoards Mobile App »
Upgrading the cylinder is nothing short of completely disassembling the top half of your engine to put a larger piston and cylinder in it. Don't fret though, it is about as easy as it looks....
Upgrading the cylinder is nothing short of completely disassembling the top half of your engine to put a larger piston and cylinder in it. Don't fret though, it is about as easy as it looks....
So does that mean I probably shouldn't try doing it myself unless I know exactly what I'm doing.....which I don't? It sounds like something a "pro" would need to do.
Joined: May 2010 Gender: Male Posts: 570 Location: Indianapolis, IN
Re: Newbie here, Looking for more MPH Help « Reply #10 on Aug 19, 2011, 1:01pm »
Don't be intimidated by the BBK installation. Work on your bike a little more. Learn the location of all the parts. Do your PDI, and learn to do the maint on your scoot. Perform what ever Mods you feel you can handle, and by that time you'll feel much more comfortable taking on the BBK. It's not difficult, but being familiar with the components on your scoot and becoming comfortable working on them before, you tear the top of the engine down, will give you the confidence needed to complete the task.
There are several tutorials on the installation available, and many more Dawgs that have actual experience doing it. If you ask for help, you'll get it.
They pay off of course isn't just in major savings from not taking it to a shop, but the further knowledge you will gain about how that bug hunk of metal and plastic you have between your legs, actually runs
Roketa MC10K50~JMStar 139QMB Scoot Dawg PDI NGK Iridium Plug Fram Fuel Filter Fuel\Vacuum Line Mods~Blue's Way Red Perf Coil Blue Perf CDI 6.5gr Dr Pulley Sliders Gates Powerlink Belt 18mm Carb/Accel Pump Perf Disc Air Filter Mod'd OEM Exhaust
Re: Newbie here, Looking for more MPH Help « Reply #11 on Aug 19, 2011, 1:16pm »
Thanks for everyones input, I really thank you all. I'm still wondering about a new unrestricted CDI and what, if anything, that will do for me. Like I said orginally I'm just looking to be able to run 40+mph on flat, although climbing hills faster than 20mph would be nice too.
Joined: Jun 2010 Gender: Male Posts: 826 Location: Lower Cape Cod
Re: Newbie here, Looking for more MPH Help « Reply #12 on Aug 19, 2011, 3:05pm »
I do think I saw that he posted that the factory CDI's are NOT restricted, that said it never hurts to have a spare! I'm in the BBK camp also, I've spent plenty of money on marginal mods that MIGHT have given me oh, 3-4 MPH more at best. If you REALLY are a little nervous about taking an engine down, try just ordering up the entire 80cc motor and final drive assembly. It's easy as all heck to unbolt the exhaust, take off the rear shock and tire, unmount the motor from the swing arm, pull the carb, and unplug the stator wires. have the new motor ready, reverse the steps (which I may have left a couple out) to install the new one, drain and change oil and gearbox fluids and you should be good to go! That will easily get you holding 40-45 MPH and even hitting 50-55 on a good downhill! You MIGHT look into a new exhaust but from my own experience I didn't need it. The price for it all? About $400.00 and MAYBE 2 hours of labor
I do think I saw that he posted that the factory CDI's are NOT restricted, that said it never hurts to have a spare! I'm in the BBK camp also, I've spent plenty of money on marginal mods that MIGHT have given me oh, 3-4 MPH more at best. If you REALLY are a little nervous about taking an engine down, try just ordering up the entire 80cc motor and final drive assembly. It's easy as all heck to unbolt the exhaust, take off the rear shock and tire, unmount the motor from the swing arm, pull the carb, and unplug the stator wires. have the new motor ready, reverse the steps (which I may have left a couple out) to install the new one, drain and change oil and gearbox fluids and you should be good to go! That will easily get you holding 40-45 MPH and even hitting 50-55 on a good downhill! You MIGHT look into a new exhaust but from my own experience I didn't need it. The price for it all? About $400.00 and MAYBE 2 hours of labor
Thanks for the advice. I'm sure there's some tutorials on youtube or something about switching out engines; don't ya think. So if I were to just buy a new 80cc are there particual brands or a good reputable place I should look?
Re: Newbie here, Looking for more MPH Help « Reply #14 on Aug 20, 2011, 1:39am »
OP, I'm like you and wanting to get more speed but never done these things before, I will be doing the few upgrades on mine as I posted on another page, it should cost me $60-80 and increase me hopefully 10-15mph, I'm currently getting 38mph and hopefully can hit 50mph soon and not spend a ton of money, I learn through trial and error and hopefully not ruin anything, lol!
it should cost me $60-80 and increase me hopefully 10-15mph, I'm currently getting 38mph and hopefully can hit 50mph soon and not spend a ton of money, I learn through trial and error and hopefully not ruin anything, lol!
good luck. its still a 50cc. its not going to do that as a 50. STOP. save money... just get the bbk NOW if you want 50mph+ its the only way you will get there. stop tuning your 50cc and turn it into a 73cc. then start tuning.
i tuned mine with weights and springs and am pretty happy with the way it turned out. but i wanted more low end. so i basically have better gearing which actually has increased my top end a bit. but 40 is fine for me.
get a; BBK $80 performance clutch (has red springs already) $80 different contra spring (torque) $15 air cleaner and jet $15 reduced MPG $$$$$$$$
so for $210 you can decrease your reliability, stability, and fuel mileage to gain 10-15mph. OR sell it, take that and the $210 and get a used motorcycle. they are fast stable and reliable, you will get comparable fuel mileage at that point too.
10" wheels should not do 50MPH. ever. they are not balanced, the quality is not the same as a MC tire, they are small and turn VERY fast at that speed. at 50MPH the tire is at 1200RPM 286G (gravities) a 15" is 885RPM or 210G at the same speed. http://www.csgnetwork.com/tirerevforcecalc.html
you can do 50mph on a 50cc. just for not that long. it will fall apart.
Note that the power needed to push an object through a fluid increases as the cube of the velocity. A car cruising on a highway at 50 mph (80 km/h) may require only 10 horsepower (7.5 kW) to overcome air drag, but that same car at 100 mph (160 km/h) requires 80 hp (60 kW). With a doubling of speed the drag (force) quadruples per the formula. Exerting four times the force over a fixed distance produces four times as much work. At twice the speed the work (resulting in displacement over a fixed distance) is done twice as fast. Since power is the rate of doing work, four times the work done in half the time requires eight times the power."
get a larger bore engine or increase the compression ratio ( more HP per cc)
GY6 50cc engines will not produce the power required to go 50 MPH
because of head design and lack of stroker cranks, increasing compression is not a viable (at present time) option for a base GY6 50 engines.
if you shave the head 20 thou, valves will hit the piston
Re: Newbie here, Looking for more MPH Help « Reply #17 on Aug 21, 2011, 2:06pm »
I know with mine it's weird though I'm only getting like 40-50mpg when it says I should be getting 75.. and my tank isn't 1 1/2 gallon like they say it's only 1 1/4 because I ran out the other day thinking I had 1/4 still left and nope, guess not..
Joined: Aug 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 225 Location: E. Long Island, NY
Re: Newbie here, Looking for more MPH Help « Reply #19 on Aug 21, 2011, 7:29pm »
astich, I did 85+ when breaking in my new Motorino Znen first 600 mi varying my speeds 1-35+... now I am averaging 65+-75+ per tankful of 89-90 premium 25-40+mph. I'm a happy 50cc rider compared to $20 a week driving a blazer locally. Scoot $3.65 every 3 weeks! What more do you want??? I weigh 170. Just mod for the up hills I always wait till my choke cuts out and idles down before starting out on a ride. Keep tires inflated to specs, my mods: adding a heavier contra spring, changing my roller wts to a liter 5 gram to get more hp power up hills will also help. -- Savy
they only get close when you have a 100% instrumented controlled EFI engine
a maximized MPG engine drives like stink
a driveable engine uses more (wastes) fuel
You can get both mpg, speed, and driveability. All you have to do is not go crazy with the tuning. Keep the stock air filter box WITH the restrictor in the air filter box, go with the BBK, and then get a performance variator with slider weights. This got me 45 mph top speed GPS confirmed 47 if I tucked, acceleration faster than most cars in city traffic, and still 120 mpg.
The carb needle's taper and spring tension is designed to be used with the restrictor. Remove the restrictor and even by changing jets, and moving the needle position you'll only get so-so results, you may get the right high end mix but your midrange may end up far too rich which will rob mpg and midrange throttle smoothness. This is compounded with things like ultra high flow air filters, exhausts, and big bore carbs. You can only really tune correctly for WOT and idle once you chuck the original intake setup, midrange will always be a compromise and you'll lose mpg or driveability. Surprisingly the 18mm carb is plenty big enough for a 72cc kit so you only get marginal results removing it, and by design the restrictor is also there to compensate for changes in temperature and altitude. Removing it makes it so that even minor changes in altitude like 1000 feet or so, or more than about 25 degrees temperature change can cause a noticeable loss in performance.
With my BBK I kept the stock 78 main jet and needle position, and mine never ran dangerously lean, I got 10,000 miles before the crank bearings went. Everyone here said I'd melt the top end running so lean but the spark plug read fine, keeping the restrictor in surprisingly also makes it far easier to tune. In my case I kept everything stock and it ran fine even with a BBK installed.
« Last Edit: Aug 24, 2011, 12:51am by qwertydude »
Re: Newbie here, Looking for more MPH Help « Reply #21 on Aug 24, 2011, 11:07pm »
nice choice on the peace scoot. i think i saw someone say that there was not an a/f screw on the peace carbs? that is false, it is just hidden under a brass plug. its going to be on the left side of the carb as your sitting on it. if your comfortable you can get the plug out. its really easy. once you have the carb off you can get a small sized drill bit and BY HAND drill into the plug enough to where you can just rock the drill bit back and forth and the plug will pop out, voila! a/f screw! counterclockwise to richen/clockwise to lean. i went with a #88 main jet and removed a small baffle inside the stock airbox and once tuned runs damn good. i have also experimented with weights a bit here and there and have found that a combination of 5.5g and 6.5g weights give me nice takeoff, decent mid range and opens up the second gear right about as it should. but then again every rider, climate, and elevation change is totally different. in my particular climate i have found that i have to adjust the a/f ratio based on temperature. cold=richer/ hot=leaner. just some food for thought. ride safe out there!
Re: Newbie here, Looking for more MPH Help « Reply #24 on Aug 26, 2011, 11:26pm »
Scooters are restricted air intake flow , carb and exhaust for emissions . To get more power a BBK is the way to go , I had 72cc , bigger jets , 5 gram rollers and NGK plug( not Iridium) and I could hit 50 and max at 55mph. It seemed ok at 50 . I now have Air Sal 82cc BBK , wow the difference ! I have same top end ,but I get there faster and I have more power going uphills . I have NEVER heard removing a washer from variator would help nor would I suggest it .You can upgrade your variator to a larger one and use slider weights ( I read the last longer ) Id upgrade the clutch too if you do the variator along with getting a Kevlar or Amarid drive belt .Some stock belts are wimpy and dont last as long as a premium one . Belts and weights wear down just like any moving part does .An unlimited CDI can get more rpms but also allow you to over rev like when going downhill and shorten engine life . I plan on getting a hotter coil and use NGK Iridium plug. Iridium is a semi conductor and can conduct eletctrical flow 4xs better than a standard conductor like copper . There is dif numbers on your model of plug for dif heat ranges , stick with low temp as hotter plug may cause over heating in summer or under heavy loads. A BBK has more power so it doesnt have to work as hard to propel as 49cc does , when you run an engine at max it shortens its life , more power its not as stressed .I can cruise 45 with low rpms . If you have 10in tires most I have seen have a speed rating of J which stands for 62 mph max speed , so you should not go over 50 or 55 to keep a safe margin . There is alot of tweaks one can do , put a small engine can only do so much . but its still so much fun to ride around on and cheap on gas .
Working on it yourself could also void your warranty if your lucky enough to have one .It would be worth it to have a shop install the BBK , especially if you dont have the skills , place to work on it or the tools .
I would try sparkplug and coil upgrade as those are easiest and do not require specialty tools .Do things one step at a time and do tests .Plan on making errors as well have but learn from it and reading up on the howtos. Youtube has alot of videos on scooter upgrades and repairs .
Since yours is new enjoy it and maybe you can find a used scooter on Craigslit etc for experimenting on in case you mess it up you still have your main scooter
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